|
Post by Alan Duncan on Jul 20, 2007 14:17:00 GMT
Condition/1 cars are in superb condition in all respects.not concours,but superbly maintained vehicles with no major faults. Condition /2 Cars are capable of regular use . They have a current MOT certificate ,but will need work and/or origeinal parts to make them Condition 1 Condition/3 cars usually needa complete rebuild,but they might be driveeable and MOT'd Concour Examples add about £2,000 to Condition 1 cars UK MODELS TA22 ST Flatlight Con/1-£6,500 Con/2-£3,500 Con/3-£1,000 TA22 ST Bubble Light.Con/1-£6,000 Con/2-£3,000 Con/3-£800 TA22 GT Bubble Light. Con/1-£7,500 Con/2-£4,000 Con/3-£1,500 TA23 ST Con/1-£6,000 Con/2- £3,000 Con3/-£800 RA23 ST Con/1-£5,500 Con/2-£2,500 Con/3-£600 TA23 GT Con/1-£8,000 Con/2-£4,500 Con/3-£1,600 RA28 ST Con/1-£6000 Con/2-£3,000 Con/3-£800 RA28 GT Con/1-£8,000 Con/2-£4,500 Con/3-£1,600 NON UK MODELS TA22 GT FLATLIGHT Con/1- Over £10,000 RA25 EARLY Con/1-Over£10,000 RA25 LATE Con/1-Over £10,000 TA23 LT Con/1-£5000 Con/2-£2,000 Con/3-£400 TA23 ET ? ? ? TA23 GTV Con/1- Over £15,000 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx TA = 1600cc RA = 2000cc Talking to 2 long time members today, looking to see what they thought the 1st gen price guide should be, and they were a good bit diff way there prices and diff to what i thought too. let me know what you think, as i have put it on the practical Classics Forum. link to where i have put it, with two remarks in it too www.practicalclassics.co.uk/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12636 2011 Price Guide UK Cars Mint Average Flatlight ST £11,000 £6000 Bubble Lt, ST £7,000 £4500 Bubble Lt ,GT £11,000 £6,000 23ST £7,500 £4,500 23 GT £11,000 £6000 28ST £6,000 £4,000 28GT £9,000 £5,000
|
|
|
Post by sidta23 on Jul 20, 2007 16:55:21 GMT
Hi Al that red ta23Gt sold for £9950 couple weeks ago so you may have to adjust those values.
|
|
|
Post by Alan Duncan on Jul 20, 2007 17:33:04 GMT
I was told it was in Exceptional Condition and had a low milege,in which you add about £3,000 to the condition 1 car
If i am wrong and this is not an Exceptional condition car let me know and i will Revalue them.
I am looking to get as much info as poss to get it right,as i will be passing the info on to the Practical Classics,so they can fix there PRICE GUIDE Also looking for a Price guide on the RA25/TA22 GT Flatlight/TA23 LT and the TA23 ET
|
|
|
Post by harvey on Jul 21, 2007 22:03:39 GMT
Prices is always difficult to put a value on, the guys who want a particular car always say the prices are too high because they are looking for a bargain,and the opposite is said by the vendors.
On non UK models so few are around its almost impossible to predict, then the issue of modified cars, sometimes extensive mods don't change the value much at all.
Prices you put are a fair guesstimate, just take a look at what ordinary 70's Fords are making in the last 18 months!
|
|
|
Post by mrbishi on Jul 22, 2007 19:57:14 GMT
As a matter of interest,there was a TA27 up for sale on pistonheads recently for £10500 There is also one for sale here for 3k and a modded ra25 for 7.5k
|
|
|
Post by dinger on Jul 23, 2007 16:25:05 GMT
Al Interesting subject. Difficult too. Brings in the element of personal preference - 22 v.23 and coupe v l/back on the 23/28. Not many changing hands and unless you see it hard to guage condition. Some thoughts for cond. one cars and I agree with you categories. I would probably put 22 coupes at least as valuable if not above 23. Also I would increase the differential on both, for GT above ST. Your ST values look a bit high to me so achieve this by dropping ST. Again I do not share your view of the 28 l/back equal to 23 coupe - would reduce the 28 a bit. These views based partly on comments on this forum on "favourite Toyotas" etc. Agree withHarvey it is just about impossible to value non UK spec cars. My view, value below UK cars just like nineties Celicas and MR2s. Unless you really want rarity, in which case try to find an RA23R-H, the rare 2 Litre Auto or one of the few RA28 GTs with optional air/con and stereo, both UK spec. Finally for premium prices and I agree some cars will command that, surely originality comes in. As Toyota built it and unrestored - not many about, but there is a well known TA22 near Ayr! Or if restored should be to original spec. and not molested. That recent red TA23GT at £9k+. Why fit the wrong wheels, front no.plate and door mirrors. The GT decals look too narrow and if I remember advertised on E. Bay with PAS. and leather - oh dear. If it is a UK car the original buyer was in no rush to get it. Ragistered 1978, production stopped July 1977. Sorry Al, didn,t mean this to become too critical, just my views on the subject1
|
|
|
Post by oldredcelicabryan on Jul 24, 2007 9:18:04 GMT
Martin Goodleys car (the TA23GT sold on Ebay for £9950) Did not have leather seats, PAS and it was Orange not Red. The Paint was a spot on match for the Toyota colour. The GT sticker was a spot on match for the original to the mm. The number plates were changed AFTER he died as was the passenger door mirror, which he would not fit as it was not meant to have one. As for the wheels they were period (well nearly).
He's car is still one of the best you'll ever see.
|
|
|
Post by dinger on Jul 24, 2007 11:58:55 GMT
Would not want to get into a personalised slanging match on the question of the expensive E. Bay TA23GT. However to respond. Obviously you accept my comments on front plate and second door mirror. (I do accept the practicality of a n/s additional mirror in todays traffic). On the wheels, accept that many ST buyers put on sports wheels at point of purchase new as a period mod., to replace the original dull steel jobs. Much less usual on a 22/23 GT which had quite a decent big spoke steel sports wheel and rim embellisher ex - factory. From memory, I said I thought it was advertised with PAS and leather thinking that if I was right it was probably a mistake. Re: the colour - it looked red in the colour ad. If its orange it is the wrong colour. The only colour available, from a limited range, in a UK spec. TA23GT in any shade of red or orange was red. TGB sent their red demo. to the Circuit of Ireland as a course car in 1977. Re: the side stripes and looking again at the car in the recent Club mag. we beg to differ - shoud be deeper and sit just above the chrome strip. If you want to check UK spec and appearance for a TA23GT get a copy of the UK sales brochure - reference CGT/4/77. Yes of course its a lovely car - just my point of originality and thanks for pointing out items like the plate and mirror added later.
|
|
ta22gt
Highschool Graduate
Posts: 26
|
Post by ta22gt on Jul 24, 2007 22:42:14 GMT
Hmmmm. Interesting. The price guide is a difficult one, but not impossible. I've never seen a condition 1 ST of any type sell for £5K- £6K, so perhaps the ST prices are over-optimistic. Even the GT prices don't bear much relation to what is actually being paid over the last couple of years. Sure, we have one 23GT fetching an astronomical price, and the occasional exceptional ST (Bristol Bobs 4k miler) but one or two high prices don't prove there is a general trend that can be applied to everything, or that there will be. RA23ST? As a restorer/owner of a Practical Classics feature car, I can tell you, you don't buy a Celica to be dragged around by an 18R and 3spd Auto. A true sheep in wolf's clothing. 360 examples or not, rarity doesn't compensate in this case. And all Series 1s have passionate champions - the more people you talk to, the harder it is to establish a meaningful order of popularity, so the prices have to be the same across 22/23/28. It's quite possible to value non-UK spec cars. Most are going to have to be imported from Japan and the Japanese value early GTs, GTVs, 27s, 25s etc very highly - that market, the cost of import and the rarity/wow factor will always determine the price, and that will be higher than UK stuff. And there is no correlation between the prices of good early Celicas and tired imported '90s MR2s and ST182s, trust me........ If Celicas start making the prices you've suggested Alan, I'll be a vey happy man, but there's not enough real world evidence to support your figures - yet. Just a couple of points on Martin's 23 GT - the stripes are millimeter perfect in dimension and position. I have the original brochures and an original 23GT door complete with stripes (black over red in this case), so if anyone wants the exact measurements, I can help. As regards colour - that could be a problem - Martins' was exactly matched, but I have seen 23GTs in two distinctly different shades of red/orange original finishes - I have pictures of both examples, I'll try and dig them out. Finally - there are several examples of 'T' reg 23s and 28s, the reason being that they took at least 6 months to ship over here and get registered, and that's true for almost all RWD Celicas (one of mine took 18 months from date of manufacture, to date of reg!). The exception is the 'new' models that where flown over, which is why we have a handful of 'S' reg TA/RA40s, apparently older than than the cars they where replacing. OK, enough poking the embers....next.....
|
|
ta22gt
Highschool Graduate
Posts: 26
|
Post by ta22gt on Jul 25, 2007 12:51:49 GMT
Mike
Totally original is very nice to have and such cars will always command a premium, but what percentage of the surviving cars can truly qualify? 1%? 2%? And where do you draw the line - replacement tyres, battery, exhaust, windscreen, headlights, carpets, or as in your case replacement panels, before you use the 'unoriginal' label?
The overwhelming majority of early Celicas are not totally original and the overwhelming majority of owners or prospective owners don't care. The crucial point is that if the car has to have work carried out, it is done well and sympathetically, and if major work is needed, to original specification. If it is, I don't see that should affect desirability and therefore value.
BTW, is disagreeumption a medically recognized compulsion? ;D
|
|
|
Post by mrbishi on Jul 25, 2007 15:48:17 GMT
I love the way everyone bangs on about original cars being worth more,but at the end of the day,a car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it at the time.This can vary from week to week and from modified (bring out the crucifixes) to original.
Hey you never know,once my 22 is finished with it's (possibly) nissan sr20det power,you may get some young lad straight out of max power land with 10k burning a hole in his pocket wanting to buy it......hell all i'll have to do is put it on ebay with the tags 'drift' 'rwd' and 'ae86'.
You never know ;D
Now insured value is a different matter.
|
|
|
Post by Alan Duncan on Jul 25, 2007 18:38:48 GMT
Good to get a wee bit o banter going lads,but you have not said what YOU think the value should be. One thing for sure is the Practical Classics have them far to low. I know what will happan they will look at my price guide,take a few grand off, and keep it like that for the next 5 or more years. has anyone been looking at other makes,like ford they are going up a lot faster then any Toyota, say the MK1 Escorts, look at a 2 door,never mind a rs or a mexico/MK1 Capri ect. In the spring ebay gets all the best prices, as its poss some punters going to the shows see what they want and by the spring they have enough cash, and so has everyone, so they all bid against each other, so the later in the year the price will be lower. Am i right or not,if not i would like to here what is ,and how much, its easy to say they are too low or too high, but hard to say WHAT PRICE
|
|
ta22gt
Highschool Graduate
Posts: 26
|
Post by ta22gt on Jul 25, 2007 21:12:17 GMT
Alan, you spotted the flaw in my arguement - big talk and no action!
But I'm thinking about it. It's ten years since I first cornered Nick Wossname from PC about how useless and even misleading their price guide was, and here we are still moaning. I'll put something together over the weekend and then I too can look forward to a week of smart-alecs telling me where I went wrong....
And Mrbishi, you're right - it's horses for courses. I stand by my comments on 'original' cars and the premium price they attract, because it does matter to some folk, and they will pay. But....I'm building a 3T-G hybrid, (well, Paul Lester is building with my help), which is for a client in Europe to put in a very nice 22 with some personal interior and exterior modifications. Its's drop-dead gorgeous now, and when we're finished I wouldn't be suprised to see it attract as much money as a top original car, from a wholly different type of buyer, who likes what they see and doesn't care if the carpets are the wrong colour.
The point here is that that's also beyond the scope of the discussion, because we're trying to establish a realistic price guide for standard cars - it's impossible to do that for modified stuff.
Oh well.....
|
|
|
Post by sidta23 on Jul 25, 2007 21:25:52 GMT
Well said Al about the years start, but open any autotrader & there are quite a few fords, escorts capris etc to choose from at expensive prices, but look for a ta22 ta23 & there are none, i got mine 7 years ago through a wanted ad in the buy & sell in Ireland & paid a good price cos i wanted it & it was a good car, but i think that that red ta23Gt was too expensive because my ta23 was a really clean car when i got it & a year later rust bubbles appeared in the chosen places so i have spent the last 4 years welding new steel into what wasnt a rusty car to start with & if any appears i will literally eat it, so what i am saying is who really knows what the 10k car is like only time will tell, btw i have spent a lot more on mine never mind my time & effort but i know what i have when its finished & full photo restoration, so if i was the new owner of the 10k car i would be concerned if he didnt get lots of photos of its restoration with it. i dont think there is such a thing as original celica i every sense of the word, i had a 1978 ta23 in 1982 just over 4 years old & it was rotten with rust only had it under a year & it had to be scrapped, but it only cost a couple hundred not 10K.
|
|
|
Post by sidta23 on Jul 25, 2007 21:33:41 GMT
Just another little addition it doesnt matter what engine interior color etc the car has got as long as there is none of the dreaded rust, any of the surviving cars seem to have that sorted but with great time expense & then have to have copious ammounts of wax in every nook & cranny, so look for the body & panels first, & then the engine drivetrain interior etc, check out Toymods & classic-celica to see what can be done if you have a good base to start with, these guys can eat toyotas for breakfast.
|
|